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 BeitragVerfasst am: Do Sep 05, 2019 08:32    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

I have tested the NGP6 for a few month now and i really like it. It is much more precise and the feedback of the car is much better. The feeling of the tires is great and when i switch back to NGP5 I'm really surprised how much information is missing there. I haven't driven a rally car yet, so i can't say how realistic it is. I just have been co-driver in an Adam R2 an it was a lot of fun. In NGP6 the R2-class is a lot of fun too, so I think it's realistic wink

Normally I drive the R5-class. Now you feel the difference between the R5 much more and you feel even better, when you are going too fast.

Also the feeling of the downforce of the WRC is astonishing and really different between the cars.

But I think one big thing is missing. I'm really waiting for the Fiat:
https://youtu.be/YVqCO4Rp9DQ

Just joking, keep up the good work wink
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Do Sep 05, 2019 10:16    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Zitat:
I’m on the search now for some nice potentiometers or new pedals
take option new pedals
the logitech hardware is a good compromise for mostly fun and arcade games, but if you like to drive simulations (not only RBR, it is same for circuit racing games) you need pedals with real push distance and a better back-pressure for more sensitiv using. I also suggest everyone to use a steering wheel with real diameter. it feel totaly different and potentially you get a wrong feeling with steering wheels with lower diameter (like logitech G whatever)

Zitat:
So if I have 0% locking for ALL values in speed map, I have open centre diff when coasting? (no throttle, no brake)
So the brake map in active diff works only and strictly for brake input. Am I right?
means also, i have an open centre diff if i use the engine brake only? only the value of brake lever not brake force is the trigger for active center diff lock? if i want in such situation lock for centre diff, i need allways use left food braking ?
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Do Sep 05, 2019 10:48    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Lamda hat folgendes geschrieben:

Zitat:
So if I have 0% locking for ALL values in speed map, I have open centre diff when coasting? (no throttle, no brake)
So the brake map in active diff works only and strictly for brake input. Am I right?
means also, i have an open centre diff if i use the engine brake only? only the value of brake lever not brake force is the trigger for active center diff lock? if i want in such situation lock for centre diff, i need allways use left food braking ?


Exactly, active diffs use the controller input (throttle, brake) only.

The mechanical diffs lock based on the actual torque in the shafts.

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Do Sep 05, 2019 11:33    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Thank you. Yeah, it would be fine if we can get more "sensors" for active diff. for example steering angle would be useful. But as I have experiences with stock Evo active and Skacel Impreza gr.N active I know, that even in real life some drivers don't spot differences between some maps.(thats true, not everyone is Loeb). So I think it is enough as it is now, as we can't feel every little movement, every wheel spin etc, because of fov, chair etc etc..

Lamda: if I understand right, you can set for example 40% for all values in speed map, so when coasting (no brake, no throttle) you will have always this locking.
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Do Sep 05, 2019 12:10    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Hi guys, nothing constructive from me, unfortunately I don't have time to test all the updates properly at this moment and also the discussion is getting too technical for my level of knowledge smile

I would like to say BIG THANKS to anyone who is testing & providing relevant feedback for WorkerBee and his incredible project.

Good work guys!

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Do Sep 05, 2019 12:49    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

The point is, you need to set 40% lock to 0% gas AND 0% brake, than you have a fix lock f 40% with engine brake.

but it will a bit tricky, if you set all other stuff on the maping it will jumping value between...

if you like, you can set a preload too, you need to set the leveler 0% condition to the preload lock value and must set all other value above of it (you can do it for brake and gas seperately)

if you have a "better value wins" condition, whats about the "leftfoot braking" mapping, it it inactive? what should this maping do?

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Do Sep 05, 2019 13:37    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

The LFB mapping applies if you do throttle AND brake at the same time.

But then still the highest values wins.

E.g. if you have set 20% locking set for the current throttle+brake input, but 30% in the speed map e.g. for 150 kph, and you are driving more than 150 kph, the 30% speed map value wins.

Basically a locked diff makes the car more unwilling to turn (as long as the wheels are not spinning like mad), so you may not be happy with lots of locking at low speeds.
The original manual says that one may apply some locking at very high speeds to make the car more stable. This is somehow correct.

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Fr Sep 06, 2019 19:44    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

one little question, what happens if Handbrake release set to 0%. it would suggest if handbrake is not pulled, the couple for rear is open.
So i belive it is nessesary for activating the handbrake gives any input signal, isn´t it? (i think its implement in this case)

some notes (if someone wondering about): the handbrake release option is working after the rbr filter manipulation. if you have digital handbrake (it generate only a 0% or 100% signal) it is different feeling for different handbrake release values because the digital signal become a simulated analoge curve.

Zitat:
Basically a locked diff makes the car more unwilling to turn (as long as the wheels are not spinning like mad), so you may not be happy with lots of locking at low speeds.
The original manual says that one may apply some locking at very high speeds to make the car more stable. This is somehow correct.

i can confirm that practical. On turn out (handbraketurn), the first time you accelate you get a bigger oversteer kick, but if the tyres spinning fast you get it not.

for further updates:
i would like to have an setup option to change the weight balance (front/rear) to be able to adjust it in the way of my favorite driving style (only a little bit). it would give more options to balance the car and help to avoid the general understeer behavior of some cars (for example R5). i know the WRC have that options change some weight more to front or rear. i belive R5 too (because of differnt type (more oversteer/more understeer) of car behavior seen on videos)

quote lappi, service WRC Germany 2019: "....and set more weight to the frontaxle..."

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Fr Sep 06, 2019 21:55    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Lamda hat folgendes geschrieben:
one little question, what happens if Handbrake release set to 0%. it would suggest if handbrake is not pulled, the couple for rear is open.
So i belive it is nessesary for activating the handbrake gives any input signal, isn´t it? (i think its implement in this case)


Handbrake input counts from 0 to 100%.

The threshold for disconnecting the rear drive train can be set from 0 to 100%.

If the input is GREATER THAN the threshold, the axle is disconnected.

As 100% input can never be GREATER THAN 100% threshold, no disconnect occurs in this case (see e.g. Audi quattro, it HAS a handbrake, but actually through the drive train it brakes all wheels).

And as 0% input is never GREATER THAN 0% threshold, the axle is still connected if no handbrake is applied.

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Sa Sep 07, 2019 00:37    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Lamda hat folgendes geschrieben:
quote lappi, service WRC Germany 2019: "....and set more weight to the frontaxle..."


Interesting. To be honest, I don't know that the WRC/R5 have this option..you can do it by adjusting whole setup, mainly dampers. So, few "clicks" between stages and you have different weight transfer. I think Rebound has a big impact for weight transfer - balance.

But if you are right and there is this option, why neuville said this (you posted it): "Neuville says after sweden 2018, the weight of 2nd spare wheel and the snow on the car makes the car near uncontrollable."

If there is this option, why Hyundai only didn't adjust weight balance more front to compensate the 2nd spare wheel?
Makes no sense to me..But I really don't know if this option exist or not, so I just deduce. gruebel
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Sa Sep 07, 2019 02:05    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

on the old WRC they had blocks. they was mounted around seat and have options to mount it on different positions to adjust the weight balance

i belive it will similar on actual WRC because you need options to adjust the weight. you can never built a car with exact weight than fia regulations

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Sa Sep 07, 2019 08:22    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Dennis Zetak hat folgendes geschrieben:


About weight bias, he said, Fabia R5 is 55:45 on tarmac and 56:44 on gravel. You can see it in data sheet. He told me, if he had a Fabia WRC, and on old WRC and on new WRC it is weight bias 50:50.

Here is datasheet from Fabia R5.
https://mega.nz/#F!10IlQSYL!hxDm4LsF0OWi0RE58T5bdg


I wrote it about weight before, look at this datasheet. And yes, you can adjust a weight bias by undertrays, which are under engine and back of the car. But by Skoda fabric there is only 2 options of weight bias. 50:50 and 55:45
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: So Sep 08, 2019 13:15    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

@Bee

RichardBurnsRally.ini -> soundTorqueThreshold=0

Is it new or did I miss something?

There is no "How-To" in ReadMe.PhysicsNG.txt.
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: So Sep 08, 2019 13:36    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

jansku22 hat folgendes geschrieben:
@Bee

RichardBurnsRally.ini -> soundTorqueThreshold=0

Is it new or did I miss something?

There is no "How-To" in ReadMe.PhysicsNG.txt.


I deliberately did not document this parameter, as I wanted to prevent having to discuss that stuff for weeks and months in the process.

After some users complained about the engine sound I have invented the threshold to be able to adjust it.
Vanilla RBR uses 600 (Nm), NGP internally sets that to 1.2 times the max. engine torque (if parameter is 0).
Up to this limit the sound algorithm somehow uses it for adapting the engine sound output.
Above it is "constant", or cut, whatever the correct term may be.
I am no sound expert, and after a few tests I simply gave up, as I am satisfied with the sound anyway, kind of.

So if you like, you may play a little bit with it, if you are not satisfied with NGP's automagic.

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 BeitragVerfasst am: So Sep 08, 2019 16:37    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

I understand.

I have no complains about the NGP6 sounds, so I use the default value.
But it's good to have many settings as possible and know their meaning.

Thanks smile
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Di Sep 10, 2019 06:44    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Hello Bee, after intensely testing the NGP 6 version I am very satisfied, it is the best thing that has been done, here below is a comparison of three real sections vs rbrNGP, sectors of Ouninpohja, and Sweet Lamb, you will be surprised. Is incredible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ4IrjxR0xE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA58lEZM2Lg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtPCqwmvPBA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM55abEp0Hc


On the other hand, I have only one doubt, I know that the subject is discussed but I cannot understand the reason why the R5 and WRC have such a small turning radius, I have seen it and understand that it is true, but I need someone to I explained it.


Without more to say, thanks to the whole community and you bee for doing this great job, greetings from Argentina!
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Di Sep 10, 2019 10:54    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

What do you compare in these videos?

Zuletzt bearbeitet von Fabz am Di Sep 10, 2019 13:19, insgesamt einmal bearbeitet
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Di Sep 10, 2019 12:50    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

He want know the real reason, why it is not nessesary to have a turning radius of a common car.

-you have (and need) a most possible less steering angle but it need precise and fast enough for exact driving and control. as more steering angle as more precise but as less fast.

-you need a small turning radius for only for slow sharp corner (like hairpins). but this will driven with handbrake

-as more speed with more steering, as more understeer. mostly you are fast and you can´t steer as much as you like. you need to work with handbrake or weight transfer.

-you have support from differential with lock.

You need to learn and understand "how to drive a allweeldrived Rallycar right" than you know and understand the points above

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Di Sep 10, 2019 19:12    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Or, simply put, a rally car is made for driving, not for parking. wink
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Mi Sep 11, 2019 13:02    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

Zitat:
Basically a locked diff makes the car more unwilling to turn (as long as the wheels are not spinning like mad)


count this only for center diff ?

for NGP5 it was allways set lock for rear diff to highest value as possible for besser corner speed. if i reduce it to 60 or less i got allways feeling less cornering ability and i end up at road outside.

during my Yaris NGP6 test it felt as i got a "cornering kick" on lower engine revolution (high inertia) with lower rear diff lock. is that right?

if yes, it should also work on none WRC cars without center diff and less inertia?

On front and rear differentials you have no limit for inertia transfer, if you set it to open diff and preload to 0 the lifted tyre spinns like hell and the other get all engine inertia (but dont move because the other spinning tyre)?

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Mi Sep 11, 2019 20:19    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

That applies to any diff.

This is the reason why they invented a differential 150 years or so ago.
To be able to turn easily.

But, as soon as you lift the inner tire, it spins.
This is the expected behavior.

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Do Sep 12, 2019 22:42    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

When will the ngp 6 be available for online tournaments? I'm eager to compete
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Fr Sep 13, 2019 08:16    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

LauroRally hat folgendes geschrieben:
When will the ngp 6 be available for online tournaments? I'm eager to compete

This is question for Vasek Koral - principal of rbr onlineracing cz
 
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 BeitragVerfasst am: Sa Sep 14, 2019 17:05    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

I testing some more, today the lada VFTS on tarmac and gravel and the hyundai WRC on gravel

for Lada, im on tarmac and gravel disappointed. the wild of beast was gone. verry smooth to drive on both surfaces.

But it was with default setup and nothing feel like bad behavior. i dont look detailed in the setup values, but if the setup was built for a defence and more easy drive, the car works as it should.

again, i feel nothing wrong with the physic on both surfaces. i belive the setup can tune up the car to much more wild.



second test, WRC on gravel. i got little tears on my eyes. it feels fantastic. finally im able to use all 3 options to affect the driving style. You have to play with brake, steering AND accelation to control the car. In opposition of NGP5 and previous versions, the car not allways want understeer if you accelate. In past i often said, the AWD drives often like a FWD. in comparation of the test today, my feeling in past was totaly right.

the second: the window you can drive oversteered is much bigger and the car even went less out of control. it feels more balanced at all. But all my voice said not its easy to drive. if you do wrong, you also spin or understeer as well.

third, if i compare the general car behavior with real videos its looking very close, i belive with some practise and a similar setup it could looking identical

well done from my side @Workerbee

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 BeitragVerfasst am: Mo Sep 16, 2019 22:32    Titel: NGP6 - Offline Test Antworten mit Zitat Back to top

I can confirm Lamda's feelings. I tried almost every NGP6 car and it is great. WRC cars are simply amazing no matter the generation. The last update with centre diff made a huge difference. I can really feel the "magic" of centre diff and its map.
I also love "character" of every car. All cars in one class are similar but different at the same time. So everyone can choose the car that suits them. I thought that Yaris will be my best, but I prefer Fiesta more..so no problem, I will drive Fiesta, etc.. smile. Hope that everyone will apply same approach.
WorkerBee, Thank You! This is amazing project and I really appreciate your work. NGP6 brings RBR closer to nowadays simulators. Yeah, there are still missing some features, but..who cares. It's pleasure to drive it. So many rally games was released after RBR and none of them can beat it. Just one hard working Bee with his skills...what an amazing job!!

THANK YOU! respekt top
 
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